Amanda Foote • February 22, 2024

Legislative Update

HB 2265 not voted out of the House

The Source Climbing Center is a member of the Washington Indoor Climbing Coalition. Formed in 2021 during the Covid pandemic, WICC organized to represent indoor climbing as a professional industry in Washington State.  Together, with other WICC members, the Source have been supporting HB 2265. Unfortunately, the bill did not make it out of the Rules Committee for a vote in the 2024 legislative Session.


Background

In April of 2023, the Cirque, a member gym in Lacy, WA received a Cease & Desist Letter from Labor & Industries. The letter stated that the facility was operating an amusement ride without a permit, and they must "cease operations immediately.  The letter did not clarify what part of their operations included an amusement ride, and the only further guidance referred to "a structure employing mechanical devices for climbing assistance and fall arrest and suspension/lowering of climbers." This left us wondering...  Is belaying with a rope an amusement ride?  If so, can a participant use their own equipment?


Fortunately, the order was rescinded following a coordinated response by WICC, the CWA and a community members in Olympia, but not until after The Cirque had to spend thousands of dollars on starting the appeal process.


Why Legislation?

While it may seem obvious that climbing a wall is not an amusement ride. the reality is that ambiguity in current state law leaves indoor climbing open to interpretation. If climbing is treated as amusement instead of a sport, it could have wide-ranging negative impacts on how customers experience our facility, the equipment we use, and the type of climbing we can offer. 


The legislative goal is to recognize and regulate rock climbing in a climbing facility as a sport with inherent risks that can be managed by both the climbing facility operators and the participants. 


What was HB 2265?

The Bill was an "act relating to encouraging and protecting the sport of rock climbing".  It established requirements for posting clearly legible rules and warnings for climbing along with conducting inspections of the manufactured climbing walls on a regular periodic basis. Included was an amendment to RCW 67.42.010 clarifying "Amusement ride" does not include fixed, artificial climbing surfaces built for the sport of rock climbing.


What stopped the bill?

The original bill was introduced by Representative Beth Doglio, from The Cirque's district, with strong support from several legislators with climbing gyms in their districts. Working with the Washington State Association for Justice a substitute bill was introduced, which passed through the Committee on Civil Rights & Judiciary with yes votes from Democrat Representatives Taylor, Farivar, Entenman, Goodman, Peterson, Thai and Whalen.  Republican Representatives Walsh, Graham, Abbarno, and Cheney voted no, without recommendation. 


The Rules Committee was the last step before a House vote...  Unfortunately, the bill did not have enough bipartisan support to pass through the Rules Committee before the deadline for a vote on the House floor.


What's next?

WICC plans to work with legislators to re-introduce a bill in the 2025 session.  Meanwhile, WICC is also staying in contact with the Department of Labor & industries to consider any solutions in the meantime.


What can I do?

Some have already written your representative - Thank you!  If you have not contacted your legislator, you can still help continue with a message to our legislators that we need their help to protect indoor climbing as a sport in Washington state. We want to thank the representatives that supported the bill, but we are still needing support from three key legislators in SW Washington


  • Click to EMAIL Rep. Greg Cheney, 18th District (Battle Ground, Salmon Creek) 
  • Click to EMAIL, Rep, Jim Walsh, 19th District (Longview) 
  • Click to EMAIL, Rep. Peter Abbarno, 20th District (La Center, Woodland, Ridgefield) 

 

Outreach will be most important next fall as we approach a new session in 2025.  We want legislators to know why Indoor Climbing is important to you and your community. We also need them to know how sport differs from amusement.  Climber's need spaces to train, practice risk management and learn to use gear properly.

Michael visiting the Capital in January to testify to the House Committee on Civil Rights & Judiciary

By Michael Lary March 4, 2025
Most climbers are familiar with two grading systems in the US. The Yosemite Decimal System (YDS), and the V-Scale or “Hueco Scale”. For a basic overview of how the grades work, check out this article with Climbing Magazine . While these grading systems are widely used, they are subjective and have even evolved over time, so we often hear about the inconsistency climbers see between different climbing areas and gyms. This article will help explain our approach to using the YDS and V-Scale grades here at the Source. VIEW CHART First, some background… The Source was founded by climbers with a background in mostly outdoor climbing. Hanz and I have been climbing indoors and out since the mid-90’s, along with our Lead Setter, Joe. We continue to climb in and outdoors to keep a sense of grades. Yes, even I, Michael, have continued to climb outdoors with occasional visits to local crags and an annual trip to Colorado each spring. Our goal has been, and remains to be, aligning the Source with the grades we experience climbing outdoor locally and across the country. Who determines the Grade… The Lead Setter schedules a target grade. The goal is to maintain a ‘grade curve’ that both challenges and represents the climbers here at the Source. Once a route or problem is set, the grade is then determined through consensus of 2 or more setters. Setters will “forerun” the route or problem for both quality control and to refine the difficulty to match the grade. In some cases, competition routes as an example, the setters may spend as much time forerunning and refining the route as they do setting the holds. What does the grade mean? The grade of a climb should reflect the overall difficulty of the climb. We have the grades broken into 5 categories to give a sense of the likelihood of success (climbing without a fall or take) based on a climber's level of activity, fitness and climbing experience. They may not be able to complete every climb in a category, but should expect a high level of success with regular climbing over a 3 month period. New climbers should expect a high level of success on Beginner climbs (5.5 to 5.7). We consider “new” to mean limited activity or experience, typically less than 12 days of activity or climbing in last 12 months. Intermediate climbs (5.9 to 5.10c, VB to V0) should provide a high likelihood of success for people that are physically active, climb 20 or more days/year, or have a year or more active climbing People that are more physically active 2-3 days a week, climb 30+ days a year, or with 5+ years of experience may have a high level of success on A dvanced climbs (5.10d to 5.11c, V1 to V3) Expert level climbing (5.11d to 5.12c, V4 to V5) requires most athletes to train intentionally 2-3 days per week, often climbing 50+ days a year or having 10+ years of experience. Then there is Elite level climbing (5.12d to 5.13c, V6 or more) for climbers that train at a high level 3 or more days a week, typically climbing 100+ days a year or having 20+ years of experience. Of course, there are many other factors that may impact a climber’s level of success. Age, body-type, injuries, gravity-level (although not scientifically proven, some days it just feels like there's more gravity). How is the grade determined? Our setters consider five factors when establishing a grade: holds, terrain, movement, route finding, and physicality. The setters consider the holds by asking “ how easy is it to connect with the wall? ” Hands connect easily with fingers wrapped over a positive edge, while more difficult connections require different hand positions or more contact strength down through the wrist. Feet connect easily when there is a lot of surface area, while more difficult connections require more pressure on a smaller part of the shoe’s rubber. Terrain can be considered by asking “ how easily can the body stay balanced and relaxed on the wall? ”. A climber’s weight is naturally balanced over their feet on easier terrain, while weight is supported in our hands and core even when balanced on difficult terrain. How we change between positions on the wall determines the difficulty of movement . While most climbers can make the specific body movements or positions to reach to the next hold on intermediate terrain, many people cannot produce the strength and body tension necessary to hold positions and/or make movements on higher level climbing. Route finding considers “How easily can a climber identify the connection points, position and changes?” For example, beginner climbs might only require some awareness of climbing gym specific route markings and/or hold use, while expert climbs will certainly require planning ahead or trying different use of holds, volumes and wall features before succeeding. Lastly, we consider the physicality , or “how much bodily contact or activity is required to complete the climb?” Put simply, how does it feel to the setter overall. An intermediate level climb will feel like a 5.9-5.10c that our setters have experienced outdoors. While an elite level climb might feel… well, ask Joe or Hanz because I have never sent harder than 12d outdoor. It’s important to note that the number grades do not reflect the factors brought by the climber. Fitness, experience, risk tolerance, comfort with lead or top-rope, etc. For sake of consistency, the setters can only consider the conditions as they exist on the wall. Why, just why? Some of the FAQ’s. Why is that 5.9 so hard? I sometimes ask myself the same question… but then I think of Rubicon on a slab at Carver Bridge Cliff or the vertical Five Gallon Buckets at Smith, and I find that 40’ of indoor climbing took a similar amount of physical exertion when climbed well. Why is 5.12 so much easier at the ‘gym who shall not be named’? A couple possible reasons… Indoor climbing is now a sport on it’s own, and each facilities develops criteria based on their own users and experience. There are similar discrepancies between outdoor crags. Speaking from experience, 5.11 can feel different between Smith Rock, Indian Creek, and Rifle Mountain Park. Why do you think a V4 boulderer should be able to climb 5.12a/b? We don’t necessarily think that is the case… While V4 and 12a/b are aligned on the printed scale, most climbers do not balance their training between bouldering and route climbing in the same way. Take weight lifting as an example. Bench pressing 120lbs for 3 sets of 10 reps may be at my personal limit as well as doing a single press with 180lbs. This does not mean 140 and 180 are the same, but the overall difficulty may feel similar. All things considered, the system works pretty well While the actual difficulty and experience will vary, the numbers overall still provide a reliable context to climbers with every crag or gym you visit. There is beauty in the variety that climbing provides. It is an important to remember the grades are not a reflection of the CLIMBER, they are a reflection of the conditions of the CLIMB. There is no such thing as a “5.10 climber” or a “5.12 climber”. Someone that has red-pointed a hundred 5.12 climbs will still fall on a 5.10 sometime, and a boulderer that can throw down on the latest V9 may struggle on a classic 5.11. So don’t let that “techy” 5.9 bug you, try something new on that “reachy” 5.10, and don’t hesitate to string a few moves together on that “intimidating” 5.11. CLIMB ON! Happy climbing!
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